Justification, Instructed Sufficiently, Perfect in Christ

Doug,

Thank you for sharing.  I believe we are on the same page.  First Scripture in 2 Nephi 2 – Conscience or the Light of Christ

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

 6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

This indicates that there is a cosmic law that everyone knows.  If a person was taught to go against their light of Christ at an early age, that person has limited accountability.  If a person’s conscience is intact, then that person can be judged against his or her conscience.  And the gospel is taught.  And that person has every right to accept it in the world of spirits.

Paragraph 3 – commandments, LDS

Ultimately we all need to keep the commandments.  That is the static way at looking at things.  The dynamic way is, as you said, Christ helping us along the way, as long as we are willing to receive grace.  A person can’t be judged for a commandment not given.  So, we are special in that regard.  But, an evangelical Christian will be judged for the commandments he knows about.  That makes sense.  I believe some of the ‘Law’ (or current commandments) brings me constant frustration.  I can’t keep some commandments at this time.   That is where grace comes in.  Through Grace, the Holy Ghost justifies me as I continue forward.  Here’s the scripture: Moses 6:

56 And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves, and I have given unto you another law and commandment. (same as Lehi in 2 Nephi 2:5)

….

 60 For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified;

D&C 20 says:

29 And we know that all men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and worship the Father in his name, and endure in faith on his name to the end, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.

 30 And we know that justification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and true;

 31 And we know also, that sanctification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and true, to all those who love and serve God with all their mights, minds, and strength.

 32 But there is a possibility that man may fall from grace and depart from the living God;

How does one know if he is justified?   I am not sure.  It has something to do with power.  Power from grace.  Don’t deny the power of God when you receive grace to overcome an ungodly attribute.  But, look at this scripture: Moroni 10

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

 33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

This tells me that justification and “perfect in Christ” are the same thing.  It seems to fit.

So, we serve God, denying ourselves all ungodliness (learning charity, not getting angry, not judging others, not entertaining lustful thoughts, being meek, etc.)  Walking out of theaters might be an outward manifestation of this.  President Eyring turned is chair around in the Marriott Center while watching the Young Ambassadors years ago.  I would guess that he was practicing doing something when he had impure thoughts and perhaps, meekly, desired to show others that ‘it’ can be done.  ‘It’, referring to turning his chair. 

Scott

Scotty Boy,

Most of the people who have lived and died or who are presently living.... know nothing of who God is let alone the Bible teachings or God's Plan. Yet the information is for everyone. 

I do not fully understand how they can be judged at all, since they have not been taught any truths, other than some basic, be good to people or not to be good to people. So if they have been taught, to be bad, they must be judged on very little. They just are hear for the body and experience? Or...... if all people have the Light of Christ, they do know right from wrong, even if their parents or circumstances teach otherwise? Not so? 

 In the early morning BYU Professor discussion this morning they said Jesus does more that make up the difference, he is everything and helps us thru everything.....  and yet they said members of the church need to obey the commandments in order to qualify in this life.  So members of the church need to qualify, but no one else does in this life? 

Don's answer to that is... that only members of the church are in the running for exaltation anyway. So the others are earning their salvation in other kingdoms and glories. Don's vision of polygomy for the righteous, in the here after sounds more like Islam teachings to me? 

Maybe we should keep it simple like Dave. By the way the take on keeping the Sabbath Day Holy and going to church on vacations comes from old church authorities teachings. So Don uses these changing teachings to justify not to listen to any of them. He makes some good points about not being a Prophet or General Authority Worshiper, in a way. The question is ...what is the line that seperates leading the church astray and just teaching a doctrine of that apostle or Prophet? 

Confussing.  

Dougie Boy